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Post by Allen Wiener on Aug 14, 2010 17:02:41 GMT -5
On the Mexican Archives thread, Stuart mentioned a discrepancy in Sesma's report. Despite Sesma's glowing account of his cavalry's great and easy victory over the Texans who broke out of the fort, the reinforcements he needed suggest that the fight was tougher than he led on.
Similarly, I'd ask how long the North Wall held out and how tough a fight the Texians put up there. Mexican accounts, and Joe's testimony that the Mexicans were already coming over the wall by the time Travis got there, suggest it was a brief resistance that broke down rather quickly. But, we know that Texian cannon raked the Toluca Battalion, and that Santa Anna saw fit to send in the reserves. Nonetheless, there doesn't appear to have been much more Texian cannon effectiveness there. Also, did the Mexicans scale the wall on the north and overrun the Texians, or did the breakdown result from Cos's flanking assault on the west wall?
Allen
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Post by gtj222 on Aug 14, 2010 18:54:26 GMT -5
From what I have read, once Cos moved to the west wall there was little resistance and his troops went into the plazza and out flanked the north wall defenders. They (Texians) in turn ran to the fortified rooms along the west and east walls.
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Post by Herb on Aug 14, 2010 19:10:44 GMT -5
Allen,
One thing I think gets missed in Joe's accounts is his mentioning the sentries on the wall, everybody seems to get wrapped up in the "three picketts" and just overlooks the other.
While it's pure speculation, I expect these sentries and the first defenders to arrive at the wall unleashed the terrible artillery fire that Filisola mentions.
I've (and some others) have calculated (SWAGed) that the Mexican Columns would have taken no more than 2 - 3 minutes from the bugles sounding until they reached the walls and were under the cannon. I expect the majority of the sleeping garrison (at least until the bugles sounded), in their barracks, took about the same amount of time.
I've often wondered if Duque's wounding was in this heavy initial artilllery fire, and if it was more the loss of command and control when he fell that caused the attack to stall. It could have been critical, imo, if he fell as the column hit the wall and went from an organized force in formations (and we know from Sanchez-Navarro' plat that they moved in organized formations and not some mad dash) to what in effect was 400 some individuals.
We know (not speculation) that DLP, despite being wounded himself, returned to the North Battery and and reported Duque's fall, to Santa Anna and then Santa Anna sent in the Reserves. According to DLP, the Reserves added to the delay in scaling the Walls. If you add the time it would take for DLP to return to the North Battery, the Reserve to move out and cross the same ground, we're talking probably about 10 - 12 minute minutes minimum from the sounding of the bugle until the reserves hit the wall. It seems to me, that it is almost impossible for the North Wall to have fallen before that 12 minute mark and it also seems impossible for it to have held out much more than the 15 minutes that a lot of scholars have estimated.
I think the Texian resistance was probably very fierce at the North Wall, but it was just a matter of the sheer numbers that swamped them so rapidly - a target rich environment as we used to say. Even if every Texian had 10 spare rifles/muskets at hand, he would still be reloading before his first minute at the wall had expired. Then you have to add in the factors they they were skylined, and after the initial minutes having to expose themselves to fire at the Mexican troops under the walls.
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Post by gtj222 on Aug 14, 2010 19:41:24 GMT -5
I don't really buy the idea that the Mexicans went right over the north wall as stated by Joe. From what I have read, they kind of entered into a little confusion and huddled under the north wall until Cos attacked the west wall and the the reserves were sent in.
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Post by Chuck T on Aug 14, 2010 19:47:01 GMT -5
Allen: I don't think that Joe's account of the Mexicans coming over the walls and the fact that the Toluca Battalion took a bad hit are exclusive of one another. It would be easier to devine the correct answer if we knew what formation the north wall column was in. If, for example the Tolucas were in column reserve, meaning to the immediate rear of the lead battalion(s), a discharge of cannon on the walls could have caught them exposed, while the lead elements were "under the guns" and in close proximity to the walls, and in a relative position of safety, while engaged in the act of climbing, and closely engaging the defenders. In that set of circumstances the question is easily answered. The truth is that I don't know what formation was used, and without that specific answer it is very hard to settle on one thing and say it is fact. I asked that same question a week or so ago, and received no response leading me to believe that no one who had read the question knows either.
Santa Anna committing his reserve is another one of those mysterys also. Under normal circumstances a commander is reluctant to commit a reserve. That would lead you to believe that Santa Anna either saw or learned of some event which caused him to take this action. The only thing that comes immediately to mind is that he learned a penetration had occured and wanted to reinforce success, or he learned of the casualties in the Toluca and wished to add more striking power to the attacking force. Again speculation based upon the norm, but far from a definative answer.
I think the answer to your last question is that in all probability both a foothold on the north wall and the penetration from the flank occured at or about the same time. I suspect, and that is all that it is, if you and I had been there as observers at the time, given the light conditions, we could probably not have said one way or the other for sure.
Sesma's report is one of those things you wonder about. It could be something as simple as his troops were committed as different events occured. It need not mean that the fight was tougher. It could mean that the area they had to cover was larger, or somewhat different than they at first thought and planned for. Sesma's report alone can lead only to conjecture. Sure would have been nice if one or two of his troopers had left behind an account.
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Post by Herb on Aug 14, 2010 19:59:03 GMT -5
Sure would have been nice if one or two of his troopers had left behind an account. Chuck, check out the Lorcana account, while I would say it's pretty problematic after the account says he enterred the walls, he does seem to give an accurate portrayal (from his perspective of the cavalry action). The San Luis Potosi Journal also gives some additonal information, but its in a part that Hansen didn't publish.
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Post by Kevin Young on Aug 14, 2010 20:15:07 GMT -5
Hugh and I were discussing part of this recently(actually, Hugh was being kind enough to let me bounce some 20 plus year old notes I had made). If you look at the Sanchez-Navarro battle map, you will see Cos's column attacking in columns (3). He had 10 companies--so it looks like there are three companies per column line with the cazadores out front or to the flank (of course, where the hell are they on the map?) If you have a clear copy of the map, I think you can actually see the divisions of the three companies per line of the columns.
Reading de la Pena, he says the Toluca cazadores were advancing "a few paces from the column" (to the front or flank?). He also seems to suggest that the cheering done by Duque's men caused the Texans to direct fire at it. He also says that the contributing factors to Santa Anna sending Amat and the reserves was a misreading of the difficulties of the men trying to climb the walls and the movements of Romero's men, who he thought had been replused.
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